[Parution VO] The Elvish Writing Systems of J.R.R. Tolkien - Matthews Coombes

[Druss]

Un kickstarter pour financer un ouvrage sur les systèmes d'écriture par Tolkien, par un certain Matt Coombes (inconnu au bataillon) :
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/614...?ref=video

[Corchalad]

Ah oui, c'est censé s'appeler : A definitive guide to Tolkien's Elvish writing systems including the Tengwar, Sarati & the Cirth, covering Quenya, Sindarin languages. (c'est moi qui souligne).

Sachant que le dernier Parma a révélé, par exemple, des usages totalement insoupçonnés pour écrire le quenya, et que la publication des inédits de Tolkien en est arrivée en gros aux années 40.

Il a vraiment tout compris, le gars.

[Matt Coombes]

Ah oui, c'est censé s'appeler : A definitive guide to Tolkien's Elvish writing systems including the Tengwar, Sarati & the Cirth, covering Quenya, Sindarin languages. (c'est moi qui souligne).

Sachant que le dernier Parma a révélé, par exemple, des usages totalement insoupçonnés pour écrire le quenya, et que la publication des inédits de Tolkien en est arrivée en gros aux années 40.

Il a vraiment tout compris, le gars.

I was made aware of this post by a colleague, and I feel compelled to address this. Whilst the term "definitive" may be used somewhat loosely, it is nonetheless definitive in as far that it is more than a brief summation of unreliable internet sources - which have been the case previously.

I am well aware of the latest findings in PE, but for the majority of the audience, there would be little place for inclusion into the book. Please remember this is not an academic publication, but a tribute to Tolkien's work. I have seen far too many people make mistakes using the Elvish languages, and the book is to in some way, alleviate these anomalies.

I welcome discussion about the book, but to say I do not understand is unfounded, especially as the book has not yet been published, is simply unkind. Please respect the reasons for my publishing this book - I am by no means an authority on the subject, and no doubt there are people in this very forum who know more than I, but I am not doing this for fame! More and more people are finding Tolkien's work inspiring, and having found pleasure in them myself, I am trying to make the same possible for others through the publishing of my book.

If anyone would like to discuss the book further, I would be happy to answer any questions.

Regards to all (and apologies this is not in your native tongues - mon francais est n'est pas bonne... as you can see!)

Matt

[Druss]

Thanks and welcome here Matt.

Pour les français, voici une traduction rapide de ses propos :

J'ai été alerté de ce post par un collègue et je me suis senti obligé de répondre. Bien que le terme "définitif" puisse être utilisé de façon plutôt vague, c'est néanmoins définitif dans le sens où c'est plus qu'un simple résumé de sources internet douteuses - ce qui était le cas précédemment.

Je suis bien conscient des dernières découvertes des PE, mais pour la majorité du public, il n'y aurait qu'une place réduite pour les inclure dans ce livre. Il faut se souvenir que ce n'est pas une publication académique, mais un hommage aux travaux de Tolkien. J'ai vu trop de personnes faire des erreurs en utilisant les langues elfiques, et le livre est, dans une certaine mesure, là pour atténuer ces anomalies.

Je salue les discussions sur le livre, mais dire que je ne comprends pas est infondé, en particulier alors que le livre n'est pas encore paru, et est simplement désobligeant. Il faut respecter, s'il vous plaît, les raisons de publier ce livre - je ne suis en aucun cas une autorité sur le sujet, et il y a sans doute des gens sur ce forum même qui en savent plus que moi, mais je ne le fais pas pour la gloire. De plus en plus de gens trouvent les œuvres de Tolkien inspirantes et en ayant trouvé du plaisir à mon tour, j'essaye de rendre la pareille aux autres par la publication de mon livre.

Si quiconque souhaite discuter plus avant de mon livre, je serai heureux de répondre aux questions.

Cordialement (et mes excuses que ça ne soit pas dans votre langue - "mon francais est n'est pas bonne"... comme vous pouvez le voir !)

Matt

[Corchalad]

Your clarification is welcome.

Still, I may have been blunt, but I stand by my words regarding the title. "Definitive" is terribly misleading and cannot but lead your readers astray both regarding an informed appreciation of Tolkien's creation and the content of the book. You will never correct people's misrepresentations as you hope to if you are starting like that. And to an informed reader, it shouts "wrong!" as if you were claiming to write A refferrense for good spelling.

Words matter. What you are writing is called an introduction, or a detailed introduction if you wish. This is still pretty useful indeed for newcomers to the field, who certainly cannot be expected to tackle the raw complexities of a PE, or for the many people more interested in using than studying the scripts (although a bit of study is of course inescapable).

There is no wrong in writing such simplified accounts that may be a key to a fuller appreciation of the whole. Quite like The History of Middle-earth would have been difficult to enjoy without the previously published Silmarillion. But it is crucially important (and quite difficult in practice) to get people to understand that Tolkien's languages and scripts creations were in a state of flux and subject to constant experimentation, and (in such a setting) to be abundantly clear that what you are presenting is only a part of the iceberg. The tidiest one.

Tolkien's uses are quite reminiscent of mediaeval scribal habits: there are clear sets of practices and traditions (reflected in various modes for the same language), but also a variability much greater that in modern orthographies. Actually, I think that pedagogically, Tolkien's scripts could be quite useful for people to grow more aware of the distinction between the language and the letter.

[Matt Coombes]

Thank you for the welcome...

Please note that what you are arguing as the title of the book... is NOT the title. This was a summary title for the Kickstarter project. Now if I may also be blunt, you are making a big assumption regarding the content of the book in what you are stating - you have not seen the book - not even the contents page. Of course a concise summary of every word, marking and phoneme that came out of Tolkien would run into many many pages, but it is simply not something that would sell, nor be read by the potential captive audience.

I could change the title.. "A brief summary of..", "A detailed introduction...", but this is my choice. If on purchasing the book, the reader does not feel they have gleaned sufficient information for their outlay, then of course they can be directed to Parma, VT, MUSE, Mallorn, Mythlore... but this is precisely the point. If my book gets people that far, then great. I feel that I have done the great man justice. I have made several references to journals, publications and academics in the book - I have even tackled the Sarati Diary Mode... admitedly started by Arden Smith, but I have further reconstructed the attested samples and drawn further conclusions.

There is a lot of work put into the book, and I sincerely hope it can assist the cause. But please do not make further assumptions about me or my work.

[Druss]

À noter que le financement participatif de Matt Coombes pour son livre a été atteint dans son intégralité. Il n'y a donc plus qu'à attendre le livre en question. Vous pouvez suivre son actu : https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/614...en/updates

[Druss]

Le bouquin en question est sorti et il faut avouer que le visuel est agréable :



https://www.facebook.com/learnElvish/pos...7181017459

J'ai créé la fiche du coup. Vu le peu de publications de cet ordre, je me demande si on ne pourrait pas avoir un SP ?

[Leaf]

La critique de Damien Bador est disponible sur la fiche : écrite et malencontreusement oubliée en 2017 ; mise à jour avant la publication.