HOME 10.2 a écrit :$10 It is computed by the lore-masters that the Valar came to the realm of Arda, which is the Earth, five thousand Valian Years ere the first rising of the Moon, which is as much as to say forty-seven thousands and nine hundred and one of our years. Of these, three thousand and five hundred (or thirty-three thousand five hundred and thirty of our reckoning) passed ere the measurement of time first known to the Eldar began with the flowering of the Trees. Those were the Days before days. Thereafter one thousand and four hundred and five and ninety Valian Years (or fourteen thousand of our years and three hundred and twenty-two) followed during which the Light of the Trees shone in Valinor. Those were the Days of Bliss. In those days, in the Year one thousand and fifty of the Valar, the Elves awoke in Kuivienen and the First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar began. [17]

HOME 11 a écrit :- Foreword

The title of this second part, The War of the Jewels, is an expression that my father often used of the last six centuries of the First Age: the history of Beleriand after the return of Morgoth to Middle-earth and the coming of the Noldor, until its end. 

HOME 11 a écrit :- 3-5 "Tale of Years" introduction
In the manuscript as it was originally written the Elder Days began with the Awakening of the Elves: Here begin the Elder Days, or the First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar -, but the Elder Days was struck out and does not appear in the typescript. Further on in The Tale of Years there is recorded a difference in application of the term 'Elder Days' in respect of their ending (a difference not, to my knowledge, found elsewhere): after the entry for V.Y.1500 'Fingolfin and Inglor cross the Straits of Ice' (this being the date in the Grey Annals, p. 29) it is said in the manuscript:

Here end the Elder Days with the new reckoning of time, according to some. But most lore-masters give that name also to the years of the war with Morgoth until his overthrow and casting forth.

- 3-5
600 The Elves and the Fathers of Men depart from Middle-earth and pass over Sea. Here ends the First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar.
changé en
Here end the Elder Days with the passing of Melkor, according to the reckoning of most lore-masters; here ends also the First Age

LotR 3 App F - OF THE ELVES a écrit :The High-elven was an ancient tongue of Eldamar beyond the Sea, the first to be recorded in writing. It was no longer a birth-tongue but had become, as it were, an 'Elven-latin', still used for ceremony, and for high matters of lore and song, by the High Elves, who had returned in exile to Middle-earth at the end of the First Age.

Citation :Bref, j'ai l'impression que l'expression "Premier Age du Soleil" n'existe pas et qu'il faut la remplacer par la notion de "Premier Age des Enfants d'Ilúvatar" et le faire commencer avec l'éveil des Elfes, non ?

(22.09.2024, 10:09)Tikidiki a écrit : C'est ce nom qu'il faudrait changer, en insistant sur le fait que les Années du Soleil et les Années des Arbres forment ensemble le 1er Âge ou Jours Anciens.

Morgoth s Ring, brouillon des Annales d Aman, p. 57-58, c. 1950-51 a écrit :It hath been computed by the Masters of Lore that the Valar came to the Kingdom of Arda, which is this Earth, five and forty thousand years of our time ere the first rising of the Moon. And of these thirty thousand passed ere the measurement of Time began with the flowering of the Trees. These were the Days before Days. And fifteen thousand years followed after during which the Light of the Trees yet lived, and nigh on six hundred more of the New Sun and Moon after the slaying of the Trees. And these are called the Elder Days, and with their ending ended the First Age of Time, and Melkor was thrust from the world.

The Shapping of ME, les 1ères Annales de Valinor, p. 320, c. 1930 a écrit : They came thus south unto Mithrim, and little love was there between them and the house of Fëanor ; and the folk of Fëanor removed and camped upon the southern shores, and the lake lay between the peoples. And from this time are reckoned the Years of the Sun , and these things happened in the first year. And after came measured time into the World, and the growth and change and ageing of all things was thereafter more swift even in Valinor, but most in the Hither Lands, the mortal regions between the Seas of East and West.

Citation :And even as they set foot upon Middle-earth, the ages of the Stars were ended, and the time of the Sun and Moon was begun, as is told in the Chronicle of Aman

Citation :The Tale of Years in the Latter Ages : 

The First Age was the longest. It ended with the Great Battle in which Fionwë and the sons of the Valar broke Thangorodrim and overthrew Morgoth. Then most of the exiled Elves returned into the West and dwelt in Eressëa that was afterwards named Avallon, being within sight of Valinor. The Atani or Edain, Fathers of Men, sailed also over Sea and founded the realm of Númenor or Westernesse, on a great isle, westmost of all mortal lands.

The Second Age ended with the first overthrow of Sauron and the loss of the One Ring.

The Third Age came to its end in the War of the Ring, and the destruction of the Dark Tower of Sauron, who was finally defeated.

The Fourth Age ushered in the Dominion of Men and the decline of all other ‘speaking folk’ of the Westlands. [Added: The first three ages are now by some called The Elder Days, but of old and ere the Third Age was ended that name was given only to the First Age and the world before the casting forth of Morgoth.]

(01.10.2024, 14:51)Erendis a écrit : C'est la vidéo de Fausthea sur la chaine "les échos d'Imladris" qui m'a permis de "lever ce loup"

(01.10.2024, 15:11)Tikidiki a écrit : La vidéo est un peu longue, ça se passe à quel moment ?

(11.10.2024, 01:36)np-cr a écrit : Si 1 année des Valar dure 9.58 années solaires, doit-on dire que les elfes et les nains ont 4901 années solaires ( 450 AV => 4311 années solaires plus 590 années solaires ) au début du 2e âge et les hommes 590 années solaires ?
Le premier âge aurait duré 4901 années solaires.
Ces informations seront-elles prises en compte dans l'encyclopédie du site ?

Citation :Le 2e souci ... et en plus, les 144 1ers Elfes qui s'éveillent, ne s'éveillent pas à l'age de 0 an mais de 24 ans dans les versions les plus récentes.

Citation : Le 3e souci est qu'on ne connait pas la date d'éveil des Nains. De plus, si, dans un 1er temps, Tolkien dit qu'ils s'éveillent après les Elfes, mais avant les Humain.es, plus tard, il les fait s'éveiller après les Humain.es. Donc de toute façon, les Nains ne peuvent pas avoir le même age que les Elfes

Citation :Donc tout ce qu'on peut dire, si on se base sur les volontés de Tolkien les plus récentes connues, c'est qu'au tout début du 2e Age, l'Eveil des Elfes a eu lieu il y a 39aV + 600 aS, soit 6216 aS et que c'est aussi la durée du 1er Age.

(09.11.2024, 22:51)np-cr a écrit : Il me semble avoir lu que M Christopher Tolkien parle de récits achevés concernant le Silmarillion ce qui laisse entendre qu'ils représentent une vérité à un moment donné de la pensée de son père.

Citation :C'est en quelque sorte en opposition à tout le reste qui ne sont que des textes, des notes, des dessins futurs et donc des HoMe et du NoMe.

Citation :Même les contes ont évolué et comportent plusieurs versions, j'ai appris que même le SDA avait une version révisée en 1966.

Citation :Pour le 2),  si les lampes n'existent plus car plus d'utilité, on pourrait en dire autant des arbres.

Citation :Après je préfère l'ancienne version, l'ancien univers de Tolkien tel que je le connais et que je l'apprécie.

Citation :Je ne sais pas dans quel cadre tu as lu ce que tu attribues à C. Tolkien, donc je ne peux pas dire de quoi il parlait.

Citation :

Citation :Après je préfère l'ancienne version, l'ancien univers de Tolkien tel que je le connais et que je l'apprécie.

C'est peut-être parce que tu ne connais pas ou peu son évolution et les explications données à ces modifications 

(13.11.2024, 19:25)np-cr a écrit : A part le Hobbit et le Seigneur des anneaux, peut-être le conte les enfants de Hurin quels sont les récits réellement finis chez M J R R Tolkien ?

Citation :Je viens de regarder ta vidéo sur ta chaîne : 1er Age : la dernière chronologie de Tolkien - ARDA#3.5 Temps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YMu5yHd6No

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