Citation :Tolkien se fait aussi ethnographe, car il y a dans ces calculs la tentative de décrire la croissance et le développement d’un peuple non-humain (le peuple des elfes, et dans une moindre mesure celui des Númenóréens) en termes humains, avec probablement un biais dû au substrat culturel particulier de l’auteur (celui d’un homme catholique anglais du XXe siècle). En effet, les taux de vieillissement s’ajustent pour préserver une vision que l’on pourrait qualifier de « traditionnelle » : les naissances avant le mariage sont proscrites ; dans une union l’homme ne peut être moins âgé que la femme (même dans le cas d’unions mixtes humains-elfes, le mâle humain doit être en apparence au moins aussi âgé que sa compagne)...

(15.11.2022, 23:55)Druss a écrit : J'ai noté "relativise", non "minimise". C'est sans doute un détail pour toi, mais la nuance est importante.

(15.11.2022, 21:45)Hyarion a écrit : Pour le reste, j'avais déjà fait part en détail de mes encouragements dans le fuseau privé du forum où l'article apparaissait encore en gestation, mais je re-salue ici l'existence dudit article. ^^

B.

Citation :Gestation of Elves 9 months life-time = in Bel. 900 months. [10 : As originally written the gestation time was 12 Sun-years.]
But should it suffer law of growth. All children together in Middle-earth were made to 10 = 1 law … gestation took 96 months (longer than men) = 8 years.

§9 a écrit :An elven-child was borne in its mother’s womb for about the same (relative) time as a mortal child, that is for about [9 months or ¾ of a löa > ¾ of a “youth-year” = ¾ of 12 löar = 9 löar ; [fn6 : Actually, a length of time = Mortal 96 months or 8 years.] - cf note 12] though in the Quendi this period was more variable, often being less, and on rare occasions being more. It is said that Feänor remained in the womb for one [year. > growth-year (12 löar). - cf note 13]

§15 a écrit :Thus we may observe that all matters of growth and development, which belong to the separate nature of the hröa, engaged in its own process of achieving its complete and mature form, and which are not under the will or conscious control of the fëa, proceed far slower among the Quendi than among Men. Gestation, therefore, proceeds according to the growth and ageing scale of the Quendi, and occupies [a whole yén, or 144 MY. > ¾ yên, or 108 MY. - cf note 18]

Citation :In their beginning the Quendi grew at a rate in which the “unit” was the yên or Elven-year, which was 144 MY. If then an elf-child grew to a maiden and a young woman in about 20 “years”, wedded at 25 and bore her first child at 26, her age in mortal terms would be 2,880 at maturity, 3,600 at wedding, and 3,744 at childbirth.

[... § parlant de la relation au temps]

Thus the Quendi did not and do not “live slowly”, moving ponderously like tortoises, while Time flickers past them and their sluggish thoughts! Indeed, they move and think swifter than Men, and achieve more than a Man in any given length of time. [fn7] But they have a far greater native vitality and energy to draw upon, so that it takes and will take a very great length of time to expend it.

[puis vient le § 15 cité dans mon post précédent]

note 21 a écrit :Thus the Quendi do not “live slowly”, achieving in 144 years only what a mortal could in 1 year; they are not like tortoises moving ponderously while Time flickers past them. Actually, they move and think rather swifter than Men and get more into any given length of time than any Man could. But they have a much greater natural vitality and energy to draw upon, so that it takes very much longer to expend it all.
The procreative act and “gestation” thus take place quickly, at more or less mortal speed, not taking 144 times as long! In fact, the act of union does take longer and gestation a little longer – it [gestation] occupies a löa or sun-year in Middle-earth.
But the production of children expends a very great amount of physical and spiritual energy; the desire for the next act is therefore at the Elvish rate, and when we speak of a 3 year interval we thus mean 432 years.
All matters of growth which are not directly controlled by the conscious fëa are slow in Quendi. [cf début § 15] Gestation therefore takes a very long while – about 144 MY, during all of which time husband and wife are conscious of the growth of the child, and experience a much longer joy and expectation. For Elvish childbirth is not accompanied by fear or pain – but there is a great expense of vigour followed by quiescence and weariness in both of them.
But the act of procreation not being one of growth until the union of the seed and being under full control of the will does not take long – though it is longer and of more intense delight in Elves than in Men: too intense to be long endured.

(31.12.2022, 12:35)Erendis a écrit : Autre remarque : y a-t-il une raison pour laquelle tu n'as pas considéré les textes du chapitre 19 (daté de 1968-70 a priori) qui parlent de sortes de "cycles de régénération" et du fait que "finalement" "childhood to bodily and mental maturity" serait "as swift as that of Men" ?

Citation :Un cinquième modèle ? Dans des textes brouillons plus tardifs datés de 1969(*), Tolkien semble revenir à un taux de 1:1 jusqu'à la maturité, et la longévité elfique est assurée à travers des cycles entrecoupés de “renouveaux”. (*)Présentés dans le chapitre XIX intitulé “Cycles elfiques”, p.154-156.