(13.12.2024, 19:55)Erendis a écrit : "Gondolin" et "Elrond" ne sont pas traduit non plus et pourtant absents de cette liste.
L’absence de "Bladorthin" ne peut donc pas être utilisée comme un argument de sa "non-elfinesse".

(14.12.2024, 18:58)Druss a écrit : Vu qu'il s'agit d'un vieil article, traduit d'un article anglophone dont l'autrice ne donne plus signe de vie depuis au moins deux ans, je ne suis effectivement pas certain que ça soit intéressant de prendre du temps pour cela. Libre à toi de nous proposer ton texte pour le remplacer.

Je ne veux pas présumer mais en général "Andreas" est un prénom masculin en allemand, ça me rappelle la même problématique chez les anglophones sur un certain prénom français

Elendil a écrit :

Erendis a écrit :En 2509, cela fait près de 1000 ans que des Easterling règnent sur les anciens territoires des Nordiques à l'origine de l'Echancrure Orientale (East Bight) et la venue des Balchoth achève de "nettoyer" la zone de Nordiques

Je ne serais pas aussi affirmatif, vu que le Gondor remporte systématiquement des victoires écrasantes contre les Orientais à l'issue de chaque vague d'invasion, ce qui peut parfaitement laisser la place à une résurgence (sans doute temporaire) des Hommes du Nord dans ces régions. Il suffit d'intéresser à l'histoire des Goths, des Huns et de l'Empire byzantin dans les régions pontiques pour trouver un parallèle historique assez évident, où de vastes empires peuvent être créés et détruits (ou presque) en l'espace de deux ou trois générations.

UT 3.2 a écrit :They [celleux ayant suivi Marhwini] were a remnant of the Northmen, who had formerly been a numerous and powerful confederation of peoples living in the wide plains between Mirkwood and the River Running, great breeders of horses and riders renowned for their skill and endurance, though their settled homes were in the eaves of the Forest, and especially in the East Bight, which had largely been made by their felling of trees. [...] They were in fact a bulwark of Gondor, keeping its northern and eastern frontiers from invasion; though that was not fully realised by the Kings until the bulwark was weakened and at last destroyed. The waning of the Northmen of Rhovanion began with the Great Plague, which appeared there in the winter of the year 1635. [...] when the invasions of the Wainriders began [...] the Northmen bore the brunt of the first assaults. King Narmacil II took a great army north into the plains south of Mirkwood, and gathered all that he could of the scattered remnants of the Northmen; but he was defeated, and himself fell in battle. 
[... 1856 TA]
As for the Northmen, a few, it is said, fled over the Celduin [...], some took refuge in Gon­dor, [...] Most of the Northmen were reduced to servitude, and all their former lands were occupied by the Wainriders.

[... 1899 TA]
Messengers came to him [Calimehtar] from Marhwini warning him that the Wainriders were plotting to raid Calenardhon over the Undeeps; 10 but they said also that a revolt of the Northmen who had been enslaved was being prepared and would burst into flame if the Wainriders became involved in war. [...]
The revolt planned and assisted by Marhwini had indeed broken outdesperate outlaws coming out of the Forest had roused the slaves, and together had succeeded in burning many of the dwellings of the Wainriders, and their storehouses, and their fortified camps of wagons. But most of them had perished in the attempt; for they were ill-armed, and the enemy had not left their homes undefended: their youths and old men were aided by the younger women, who in that people were also gained in arms and fought fiercely in defence of their homes and their children. Thus in the end Marhwini was obliged to retire again to his land beside the Anduin, and the Northmen of his race never again returned to their former homes.

[... 1944 TA]
the Wainriders of Rhovanion were recovering from their weakness and fear, and that he [Forthwini] suspected that they were receiving new strength from the East, [...] when the assault came at last it did not find Gondor unprepared, though its strength was less than it needed

[... vers 2500 TA]
new and dangerous enemies coming out of the east were steadily drifting in from beyond the Sea of Rhûn. They were slaying or driving north up the River Running and into the Forest the remnant of the Northmen, friends of Gondor that still dwelt east of Mirkwood.
[...]
The tidings that the Balchoth were destroying the last of their [Eothéod] kin in the South, if they did no know it already, might give weight to his appeal, if the Éothéod themselves were not threatened by any attack.

(16.12.2024, 12:38)Elendil a écrit :

(13.12.2024, 19:55)Erendis a écrit : "Gondolin" et "Elrond" ne sont pas traduit non plus et pourtant absents de cette liste.
L’absence de "Bladorthin" ne peut donc pas être utilisée comme un argument de sa "non-elfinesse".

A la relecture, je constate que les noms cités par Tolkien dans cette note ne sont que des noms attestés dans le Rhovanion. Il est manifeste qu'en la rédigeant, Tolkien n'envisageait que les noms possiblement en lien avec la langue elfique locale (nandorin ou sindarin) et non l'ensemble des noms du Hobbit (contrairement à l'interprétation de Rateliff ou de Möhn, d'ailleurs).