Citation :« Les Númenóréens qui vinrent parmi eux leur apprirent beaucoup. Ils leur apportèrent la vigne et le blé, apprirent aux hommes à planter les semenceset à moudre le grain, à tailler le bois et à façonner la pierre, et à ordonner leur vie du mieux possible sur une terre où la mort était prompte et leur bonheur fugitif. » (Le Silmarillion - Akallabêth4))

Citation :Il est raisonnable de penser que Bladorthin était un de ces rois ; les autres pouvant être les rois nains des Monts du Fer.

Citation :Blad-: (base PALA "wide") cf. bladwen "a plain", blath "wide" etc.

Citation :Il semble des plus plausible que //horoth/hortha-// puisse produire un adjectif *//horthin// « âgé, vieilli » qui, dans un mot composé, pourrait donner exactement l'élément //-orthin// recherché.

Citation :The true meaning of the name Bladorthin thus was "widely aged" or, more loosely, "very aged". It is thus revealed to be simply the Gnomish translation of Old English Orald that recurs in LR as a name of Tom Bombadil.

Citation :It seems more difficult to interpret Bladorthin's name in later Sindarin, though. Neither horoth nor Blad- seem to have survived from the Gnomish state, so that in order to squeeze him into the Third Age we have to suppose his name to be Wood-Elvish or even Avarin.

Citation :The kings and kingdoms of the Light Elves are all accounted for. Bladorthin could then only have been a Dark Elf. But Dark Elves would not use names that are legibly Gnomish.

Citation :Elven kingdoms of the Third Age did not maintain regular armies, so there would have been no need for Bladorthin to order a significant number of spears.

Citation :Above all, no respectable Elf, however dark, would order his arms from Dwarves!

Citation :Quand ?

Citation : les deux royaumes des Dúnedain s'étaient effondrés depuis longtemps.

Citation :The obvious conclusion is that the lordship of Dale was indeed the chief authority for the Northmen between Celduin and Carnen. Bladorthin was a great king but far off, too far away to be concerned about a dragon descending on Dale any more than to write off the ordered weapons.

Citation :Rateliff cite un « essai linguistique » sans titre

Citation :John Rateliff quotes Tolkien with what seems so far the only known post-LotR-statement concerning the mysterious land of Dorwinion

Citation :when the Doriathrin refugees established themselves in southern Greenwood/Mirkwood

Citation :mais sa latitude quelque peu élevée aurait dû lui interdire la viticulture.

Citation :Si des établissements sindarins avaient existé dans la région, ils auraient sans nul doute été mentionnés durant cette période

Citation :Mais au contraire, il est dit clairement que, du moins au Troisième Âge, « //les vastes terres entre l'Anduin et la Mer de Rhûn ne furent jamais réellement colonisées ou occupées// ». Cela indique clairement qu'à la fin du Troisième Âge, les vignobles du Dorwinion étaient cultivés par des Hommes, non des Elfes.

Citation :mais il est difficilement envisageable que la tradition viticole y ait été directement transmise des Elfes aux Hommes

Citation :ce sont les Númenóriens, et non les Sindar, qui enseignèrent les techniques viticoles aux Hommes de Terre du Milieu,

Citation :Il est possible que le nom //Gwinion// « Terre jeune »

Elendil a écrit :Manifestement le manuscrit du PE 17 (cf. p. 54)

Tolkien a écrit :In the Hobbit all names are translated except Galion (the Butler), Esgaroth and Dorwinion. Galion and Esgaroth are not Sindarin (though perhaps ‘Sindarized’ in shape) or are not recorded in Sindarin; but Dorwinion is Sindarin meaning “Young-land country” or Land of Gwinion. (It was probably far south down the River Running, and its Sindarin name a testimony to the spread of Sindarin: in this case expectable since the cultivation of vines was not known originally to the Nandor or Avari.)

Hum. On peut quand même rajouter que Gilson ne cite pas ses sources, au contraire de Rateliff...

'Gilson a écrit :We have supplied cross-references to these glossed and etymologized names at the place where Tolkien would presumably have included them if "Words, Phrases and Passages" had been completed.

Citation :The Great King Bladorthin
Most commentators think Bladorthin, who died before the Dwarves of Erebor could deliver specially made spears to him for his armies, was an Elf because his name ends with "-thin". And yet there is no apparent etymology for the name. The only "Elvish" word containing "-blad" is the abandoned name "Bladorion".

We do know something about the history of the region of Erebor, however, and there is no mention of another Elvish kingdom nearby. Thranduil was the only Elven king to live near Erebor during the centuries prior to Smaug's arrival when Dwarves lived there. Nor are the Elves a particularly war-like people, especially if another Elven realm did exist -- for they would have been Silvan Elves or Avari, essentially "Wood-elves".

It is perhaps significant that "Blad" sounds like the Anglo-Saxon name "Blaed(a)" (renowned), and that "Bladorthin" was originally intended to be the name of the Wizard Gandalf (who in THE HOBBIT is presented as an old man).

The evidence seems to point toward Bladorthin's being a Man, not an Elf. If we make the assumption that he was a man, can we also place him in some historical period? Perhaps so. For the memories of Thorin and Balin are the source of the legend of Bladorthin, and they were discussing treasures which were historically associated with Thror's reign when Bladorthin was mentioned.

Therefore it may be that Bladorthin himself lived in Thror's time, and that perhaps he was a King of Dale. Thror ruled in Erebor from 2590 to 2770, and we know that Girion was slain by Smaug in 2770. It may be that as many as 5 or 6 kings preceded Girion (assuming Dale was established soon after Thror settled in Erebor).

We know that Girion gave his emerald necklace (with 500 jewels) to the Dwarves for the arming of his "eldest son". An eldest son implies Girion had at least one other and perhaps two or more sons in addition to the "eldest". At what age would a prince have been richly outfitted by his father? 14? 16? 18? Perhaps Girion was in his mid- to late 30s when the eldest son was armed. But how long before Smaug's arrival would that have been?

We can look at the problem from another direction. Girion's wife and "young child" escaped to Lake-town when Smaug destroyed Dale and Bard the Bowman was that child's descendant. Bard became King of Dale in 2944 and he died in 2977. It may be that he lived about as long as a King of Rohan, in which case we can guess that Bard's genealogy as similar in design to that of King Thengel of Rohan, who died in 2980. By estimating generations backwards, we can guess that Girion's father should have been alive in 2770 as an old man. So why would he not have been?

The Long Winter presents itself as a possible answer. Although Tolkien had not yet conceived of it when he wrote THE HOBBIT, had he fleshed out the genealogy of the Kings of Dale he might indeed have decided to end a reign in 2758-9, just as he ended the reign of Helm Hammerhand during that winter. Thus, if Girion's father died in the Long Winter, he would have come to the Throne of Dale at a young age.

Furthermore, his people would have suffered terribly in the winter just as the peoples of Rohan and Eriador suffered in it. If Girion's father had been preparing for war, the preparations would have been cut short by the deaths of the king and many of his warriors.

And that brings us back to Bladorthin. Would Tolkien have decided that Bladorthin was Girion's father? We'll never know. But so many pieces fall together to support the idea that it seems hard to imagine Tolkien would have reached any other conclusion.